tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post3361192304760123564..comments2024-03-07T12:48:21.070+00:00Comments on MAGONIA REVIEW: TWO UFO CRASHESUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-13712964589900792542015-03-30T15:21:22.814+01:002015-03-30T15:21:22.814+01:00Peter Rogerson replies
On the contrary, when I...Peter Rogerson replies <br /><br />On the contrary, when I can call UFO accounts "folklore" I am making no assumptions whatsoever about their ultimate truth or falsehood, A proportion of them, by detailed, critical investigation, may indeed be turned into "data". <br /><br />I would clearly like to visit the alternate reality in which MAGONIA published the "Rogerson Lectures on Physics", it certainly isn't mine! I make no claims to any special expertise in physics, other than what I have picked up through reading over the years. It is not me who is claiming to be second guessing mainstream physics. If, as a lay person I am going to chose as my guide to physics is it going to be the likes of Stephen Hawking or some guy in a garage, or indeed some anonymous guy who wants to dumb down the whole of science, so that even I am "entitled" to know some maths free, difficulty removed, grand synthesis physics presented as a religion. With same applied to art, literature, history, music etc no doubt. <br /><br />I have no idea what a 30th, 40th or 1,000th century "science" might be like, expect that large chunks of it would as incomprehensible to us as an Ipod would be to Aristotle.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-11412591833545772392015-03-29T03:01:35.308+01:002015-03-29T03:01:35.308+01:00I'm very familiar with hyperbole. Quite insidi...I'm very familiar with hyperbole. Quite insidiously, it often comes to be taken for fact.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-60508997780939881832015-03-29T02:54:41.298+01:002015-03-29T02:54:41.298+01:00Yes, your mind is already made up: accounts of UFO...Yes, your mind is already made up: accounts of UFO witnesses are, by definition, "folklore," and can yield no meaningful data. <br /><br />The Ashtar remark was intended humorously. Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-45264786942337393862015-03-28T12:31:45.898+00:002015-03-28T12:31:45.898+00:00Peter Rogerson replies
So Ross you have never hea...Peter Rogerson replies<br /><br />So Ross you have never heard of hyperbole. Yes MUFON collects folklore (not data, Carrion is being too kind, but no one rates it sufficiently to put it into books. Instead they are filled with the same old stories and endless conspiracy theories.<br /><br />Do you really think that Aristotle could understand the workings of an ipod then. Do you really think you could, by observation work out the nature and properties of a 40th or 100th century "technology"<br /><br />Whoever said that supporters of the ETH believed in Ashtar<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-32443146713668110672015-03-27T22:57:39.710+00:002015-03-27T22:57:39.710+00:00I understand that the Roswell truth is finally to ...I understand that the Roswell truth is finally to be revealed (via some Kodakchrome slides) at a large conference in Mexico City on May 5. At least that is the intention. I hope the UK elections two days later are not unduly influenced by this, but we shall have to wait and see.<br /><br />In view of this, the said 'World UFO Day Festival' in Memphis appears to be redundant. But again, we shall have to wait and see.<br /><br />cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-40897361128533466442015-03-27T21:08:24.712+00:002015-03-27T21:08:24.712+00:00Who says American ufology is unscientific?Who says American ufology is unscientific?Magoniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201163989347743921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-5288237203950421912015-03-27T19:46:11.436+00:002015-03-27T19:46:11.436+00:00Yes, I did correct you, as the Carrion piece YOU l...Yes, I did correct you, as the Carrion piece YOU linked demonstrates. To quote him: "MUFON is not scientifically studying UFOS, it is collecting data and has been doing so for over 40 years...". That proves my point: you are wrong in saying that American ufologists do nothing but propound conspiracy theories and engage in political activism. They do collect data on UFOs, interviewing witnesses and so forth. Carrion may regard such activity as unscientific because it has not generated hypotheses or conclusions, but that's a separate issue. <br /><br />I use the word "skeptic" because that's what they typically call themselves. You're living under a rock if you're not aware of that. They even organize proudly under such titles. <br /><br />Also, I don't "believe" in the ETH. Stop assuming that anyone who dares to criticize you is an Ashtar devotee. <br /><br />I don't trust your knowledge of physics, be it pre-Einsteinian or 30th century.<br /><br />It's strange that someone such as yourself, who doesn't believe in the ETH, claims expertise on what humans cannot know about ET craft.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-21244884444140608172015-03-27T18:20:10.391+00:002015-03-27T18:20:10.391+00:00@CDA
> What I am saying is that 'finding a ...@CDA<br />> What I am saying is that 'finding a spaceship' might present more problems than we think. <br /><br />But I think we agree that UFO proponents should take that risk.<br /><br />> Scientists may need to argue the issue for months or years before reaching a consensus.<br /><br />Your scenario is a definite improvement on what we have now: the petulant whining of the self-pitying UFO proponent, who wants to blame their failures on mean old skeptics and paradigm-clutching scientists.<br /><br />Ross complains that ufologists can't get respect for trying to do science. I say they can't even do rhetoric right. Blaming others for one's failure will not convince these same others that you are succeeding.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-41595306727794012632015-03-27T17:32:33.531+00:002015-03-27T17:32:33.531+00:00Terry:
"Find a spaceship. That would do it, ...Terry:<br /><br />"Find a spaceship. That would do it, yes?".<br /><br />It probably would 'do it', but it might not. I believe Arthur C. Clarke used a similar phrase in a UFO book review. The problem is - it depends on the spaceship. doesn't it?<br /><br />I expect a really advanced technology would (after a short period of study & analysis) eventually be shown to be, by default, an alien spacecraft. But this is not necessarily what would happen. Theoretically the Roswell debris, primitive as it was, COULD still have come from a spaceship (e.g. by being only a small portion of a much larger, sophisticated, mothership).<br /><br />What I am saying is that 'finding a spaceship' might present more problems than we think. Scientists may need to argue the issue for months or years before reaching a consensus. As I say, in a way it depends on the 'spaceship'.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-16449749419730217932015-03-27T14:15:36.639+00:002015-03-27T14:15:36.639+00:00Peter, that URL seems to be defunct. To access the...Peter, that URL seems to be defunct. To access the article just use the first part: http://fotocat.blogspot.com.esMagoniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201163989347743921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-76218178256817801752015-03-27T12:53:14.003+00:002015-03-27T12:53:14.003+00:00Peter Rogerson replies
No Ross you have not “corre...Peter Rogerson replies<br />No Ross you have not “corrected” me in any way. All we need to know about MUFON can be found here;<br />http://followthemagicthread.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/whats-next-mufon-book-burning.html<br />Those with long memories know that censorship and suppression is nothing new in MUFON, as witness the ejection of those who dared question Mr Ed’s obviously faked photographs, or their ejection of Dennis Stacy from the editorship of its journal for allowing some mildly critical comment.<br />It is clear that you like Jerry Clark use the word “skeptic” (or debunker or pelicanist or whatever) to designate anyone who does not attribute puzzling UFO reports to the activities on non-human intelligences of one sort or another, or indeed anyone who critically analyses UFO reports. <br />You are perfectly free top “believe” in aliens or whatever as a matter of personal faith, but discussion of non-human intelligences of unknown nature and powers lies in the field of theology not science.<br />The various UFO propulsion theories are not even late 20th early 21st century science let alone 30th century science (which by definition is unknowable) but usually pre-Einsteinian, or baring no relationship to modern science at all. <br />If supporters of the ETH are correct, then any attempt to understand the workings of “ET” “craft” would be as fruitless as any attempt Aristotle might have made to understand the workings of an ipod.<br /><br />This piece, from someone you would label as a skeptic, might suggest a way forward , or how far from its possibility UFOlogy has drifted<br />http://fotocat.blogspot.com.es/2015_03_03_archive.htm<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-91731517940018379982015-03-26T21:52:44.710+00:002015-03-26T21:52:44.710+00:00I corrected Rogerson. Big deal. He's not bothe...I corrected Rogerson. Big deal. He's not bothered (evidently); why are you?<br /><br />No, I wasn't setting up "strawmen skeptics"; I offered an accurate description of the type. You leapt to your brethren's (and your own) defense. <br /><br />I'm not a ufologist, so I wasn't hurt, and my "attack" wasn't "self-defence." I just don't like to see people (including ufologists) treated unfairly. It's clear that even when they attempt to do sober investigations they won't be taken seriously. (And I'm not referring to "conspiracy theorists" here.)<br /><br />"Find a spaceship. That would do it, yes?" And until a spaceship is found, ufologists can expect nothing but scorn? That doesn't exactly enhance efforts to find said "spaceship," does it? And not all ufologists are sold on the extraterrestrial hypothesis, are they? <br /><br />Save your terrifying "ridicule" for your little sister; it's wasted on me.<br /><br /><br /><br />Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-75197863449846525012015-03-24T07:16:28.628+00:002015-03-24T07:16:28.628+00:00The New York Post has had a look at the Holcolme b...The New York Post has had a look at the Holcolme book:<br /><br />http://nypost.com/2015/03/22/aliens-killed-kennedy-and-other-wild-tales-of-ufos-vs-the-usa/<br />Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-2600470711952899502015-03-24T06:48:24.686+00:002015-03-24T06:48:24.686+00:00> no matter what approach ufologists take, it w...> no matter what approach ufologists take, it won't satisfy the "skeptics."<br /><br />Find a spaceship. That would do it, yes? Only a liar would deny that.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-18598845157811592762015-03-24T06:40:57.295+00:002015-03-24T06:40:57.295+00:00Ross, the substance of both your comments is nothi...Ross, the substance of both your comments is nothing more than you standing up strawmen skeptics so you can knock them down. (By acting hurt, you probably think your attack was in self-defence!)<br /><br />Ridicule <i>can</i> be earned. Congratulations.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-63875940710118678662015-03-24T01:32:21.338+00:002015-03-24T01:32:21.338+00:00I don't attend UFO conferences or other such g...I don't attend UFO conferences or other such gatherings, so I won't comment on who speaks at them. It has nothing to do with the point I made.<br /><br />"Whining is not part of the scientific method." Neither is spewing non-sequiturs. I wasn't whining, I was pointing out that no matter what approach ufologists take, it won't satisfy the "skeptics." Only a liar would deny that.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-59073763002273894952015-03-23T18:38:56.786+00:002015-03-23T18:38:56.786+00:00> There are still American ufologists (MUFON &q...> There are still American ufologists (MUFON "field investigators," etc.) investigating actual UFO reports.<br /><br />Are they invited to speak at UFO conferences? Seems we only get conspiracy mongers and people who want to complain about skeptics.<br /><br />> skeptics make fun of them<br /><br />I think it was Hynek who said, "Whining is not part of the scientific method."<br /><br />Something like that.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-58066282676975881792015-03-23T01:22:46.291+00:002015-03-23T01:22:46.291+00:00There are still American ufologists (MUFON "f...There are still American ufologists (MUFON "field investigators," etc.) investigating actual UFO reports. Of course, "skeptics" make fun of them, also.<br /><br />"As with much of these theories, most of the last century of physics is ditched." Of course, even when ufologists attempt to rationalize UFO phemonena in terms of the "new physics," skeptics make fun of them<br /><br />Conclusion: ufologists are damned if they do and damned if they don't. What a predicament.<br /><br />Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07359114718992723491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-78968041534421139492015-03-22T20:06:19.992+00:002015-03-22T20:06:19.992+00:00Larry Holcombe (whose photo shows him in a cowboy ...Larry Holcombe (whose photo shows him in a cowboy hat) is a frequent contributor to at least one of the popular UFO blogs, so I suppose it is possible he will respond to the above review. He strikes me as a sort of moderate guy in his postings. Obviously I judged him wrong. <br /><br />As for Stanton Friedman, I read somewhere that he was about the only one left who still took the MJ-12 papers as genuine official documents. Obviously I got this wong too.<br /><br />cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1485997200234349788.post-23315213750717756472015-03-22T17:54:13.932+00:002015-03-22T17:54:13.932+00:00> Foreword by Stanton Friedman
He seems quite ...> Foreword by Stanton Friedman<br /><br />He seems quite content to attach his name to useless UFO conspiracy books these days.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.com