Nick Redfern. Final Events and the Secret Government Group on Demonic UFOs and the Afterlife. Anomalist Books, 2010.
Nick Redfern meets the whistle blowers yet again. This time they are from the self styled 'Collins Elite' who, since the 1940s, have been combating the nasty old demons behind the UFOs unleashed by the magical workings of Jack Parsons, the rocket scientist and disciple of Aleister Crowley.
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In other words the same old Nick Redfern whistle blower stuff, but this time given a Christian fundamentalist twist. The cynic might suggest that this is just Redfern looking for sales in the vast and, by him, hitherto untapped Christian fundamentalist market, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Various alleged members of this group, alongside other Christian fundamentalists, such as the Rev Ray Boeche, regale Redfern with a variety of demonological dramas, which basically consist in believing just about every tale told by a ufologist to be literally true and to be the deceptions of demons. Its pretty much a no-lose situation from them, as tales of nasty abducting aliens are clearly demons, but tales of nice touchy-feely aliens, who preach world peace etc. are also demons in disguise. One reason they know this is that said aliens preach New Age ideas and say nastier things about Christianity than other religions. This is not because, as nasty cynical Magonians might think, that contactees have made these stories up, and are often rebelling against their own strict Christian upbringing, but because they are being deceived by demons.
Ironically much Christian fundamentalism and the New Age, derive from rival 1930s Nazi-lovers, Gerald L K Smith and William Dudley Pelley respectively.
That there is some small group unofficial group within US defence department employees with these demonological views is by no means implausible, though its origins are unlikely to go back much before the 1970s at the earliest, rather than the 1940s as claimed here. There are some very strange people in the hinterland of the US Republican Party., and no doubt some have crept into the recesses of the Defense Department, especially during the Bush Jnr. administration. Their concerns and language all point to post-Cold War paranoias, or maybe the anti-communism and racism of the 'old Christian right' has just been airbrushed out.
Christian (and also some Muslim) fundamentalists have been proclaiming that UFOs come from hell for some time, see David Clarke's article on the subject in Fortean Times:
🔽
In other words the same old Nick Redfern whistle blower stuff, but this time given a Christian fundamentalist twist. The cynic might suggest that this is just Redfern looking for sales in the vast and, by him, hitherto untapped Christian fundamentalist market, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Various alleged members of this group, alongside other Christian fundamentalists, such as the Rev Ray Boeche, regale Redfern with a variety of demonological dramas, which basically consist in believing just about every tale told by a ufologist to be literally true and to be the deceptions of demons. Its pretty much a no-lose situation from them, as tales of nasty abducting aliens are clearly demons, but tales of nice touchy-feely aliens, who preach world peace etc. are also demons in disguise. One reason they know this is that said aliens preach New Age ideas and say nastier things about Christianity than other religions. This is not because, as nasty cynical Magonians might think, that contactees have made these stories up, and are often rebelling against their own strict Christian upbringing, but because they are being deceived by demons.
Ironically much Christian fundamentalism and the New Age, derive from rival 1930s Nazi-lovers, Gerald L K Smith and William Dudley Pelley respectively.
That there is some small group unofficial group within US defence department employees with these demonological views is by no means implausible, though its origins are unlikely to go back much before the 1970s at the earliest, rather than the 1940s as claimed here. There are some very strange people in the hinterland of the US Republican Party., and no doubt some have crept into the recesses of the Defense Department, especially during the Bush Jnr. administration. Their concerns and language all point to post-Cold War paranoias, or maybe the anti-communism and racism of the 'old Christian right' has just been airbrushed out.
Christian (and also some Muslim) fundamentalists have been proclaiming that UFOs come from hell for some time, see David Clarke's article on the subject in Fortean Times:
It would seem that for these people that 'UFOs' envisaged as magical machines make perfect metaphors for modernity. The demons of Christianity are essentially personifications of the amoral forces of wild nature, creatures of the wilderness, For many of the fundamentalists the whole world outside their own narrow little laager is part of that demonic wilderness. Modernity and technology become assimilated to wild nature.
Alas one does not have to invoke ultraterrestrial boggarts to find radical evil. The various religious fundamentalists are making quite a good job of it themselves. Indeed in their strange demented world view there is an almost complete reversal of ordinary human moral values. Anyone preaching joy, love, tolerance, peace and fellowship is bound to be denounced as an demonic impostor, while they in effect affirm "ignorance, bigotry, fear, intolerance, hatred and loathing be thou my good"
Indeed at least one of Redfern's informants seems to see their sinister potential, and claims the Collins Elite is being taken over by a group who intent to stage a fake Second Coming of Christ or some such, in order to impose a Christian version of the Taliban on the US, backed by legion of 'Christian warriors'. Portions of the mainstream media have indeed pointed to Christian fundamentalist infiltration of the military, though there is nothing new in this.
Alas one does not have to invoke ultraterrestrial boggarts to find radical evil. The various religious fundamentalists are making quite a good job of it themselves. Indeed in their strange demented world view there is an almost complete reversal of ordinary human moral values. Anyone preaching joy, love, tolerance, peace and fellowship is bound to be denounced as an demonic impostor, while they in effect affirm "ignorance, bigotry, fear, intolerance, hatred and loathing be thou my good"
Indeed at least one of Redfern's informants seems to see their sinister potential, and claims the Collins Elite is being taken over by a group who intent to stage a fake Second Coming of Christ or some such, in order to impose a Christian version of the Taliban on the US, backed by legion of 'Christian warriors'. Portions of the mainstream media have indeed pointed to Christian fundamentalist infiltration of the military, though there is nothing new in this.
- Peter Rogerson.
9 comments:
I do agree that market share does seem to drive a lot of these stories.
Every time David Icke puts out a new book, he adds a new layer to the conspiracy he explained completely and totally in the previous book.
His followers do not seem to catch on.
The market has nothing to do with my book.
The only reason I wrote the book is because in 2007, I interviewed a chap named Ray Boeche, an Anglican priest and former state head of MUFON in the US.
Ray had been contacted by people from the US Department of Defense who had come to believe UFOs had demonic origins.
I wasn't looking for this story because I thought there was a market for it (I'm not convinced today there is much of a market for it!).
Rather, I only got on the trail of the story because I actually stumbled on Ray's story one day, because it was referenced in one of Jenny Randles books from the 90s on Rendlesham (I was researching Rendlesham at the time for another project), and I interviewed Ray, and he gave me significant data on the various occasions that he met them, what they told him, and how I might be able to take it further - which is what I did.
But, I don't think that this is anything to do with the market. After all, most people in Ufology don't believe UFOs have demonic origins (I certainly don't, and have pointed out in the interviews for the book that this "aliens are demons" is the group's view, not mine at all).
And, due to the fact that most people in Ufology don't subscribe to the theory, I think it's most unlikely that many UFO people would buy it anyway.
Plus, it's not available on the bookshelves, only available via online order. So, my personal view is that the market issue will have very little significance or dent on a book that most in Ufology will ignore, and that is only available online, rather than via a casual browsing at WH Smiths etc.
The review is pretty much correct though - aside from 2 issues - the "looking for sales" comment, and whether a group of this type would have existed before the 70s.
I have extensive files showing how the CIA were deeply researching the topic of Ouija boards in the early 50s, to determine if there was an espionage application.
Also, I have extensive Intel files now on how the military was very interested in Ruth Montgomery's whole "walk-in" phenomenon - decades ago.
Part 2 follows...
Part 2...
The earliest official file I have found on US Government interest in demonology is a 1950 paper on Jack Parsons, who was investigated because of his possible links with Israel and all sorts of weirdness to do with Israeli rocket programs, suspected spying etc.
Anyway, as well as providing extensive background on Parsons (this is a USAF file) it also covers extensively his beliefs, his links with Crowley, and much more.
Even if people don't accept that the Govt was looking into all this back then, the Parsons file is evidence they were - it't 87-pages, heavily footnoted and clear that someone in USAF intelligence was deeply knowledgable of the whole phenomenon.
The relevant demonic history/background in the document is 39-pages, and the rest is on the USAF/FBI espionage investigation of Parsons.
Finally, Terry the Censor says: "I do agree that market share does seem to drive a lot of these stories. Every time David Icke puts out a new book, he adds a new layer to the conspiracy he explained completely and totally in the previous book. His followers do not seem to catch on."
I don't know Icke, nor have I read any of his books. But, what I can say is this: I assume Icke concludes that what he is saying is the truth, correct?
What I have written is indeed the complete truth - in terms of how the story was related to me. However, if you ask me do I think that the conclusions that the group reached are the truth, no I do not.
I think it's clearly just a belief-system held by these Fundamentalists in Govt. Can they prove the "aliens are demonic" theory? No, of course not! No more than someone can currently prove the "aliens are time-travelers" or even "aliens are aliens" angle!
So, I'm not adding a new layer to something I explained in a previous book. I'm pointing out how I stumbled upon the totally new story of how a group in Government came to believe an unusual theory and what the nature of that theory is.
You may recall that I wrote a few years ago a book called Body Snatchers in the Desert that essentially concluded that Roswell was born out of high-altitude balloon experiments using people - nothing alien. I still feel that if we ever get the truth of Roswell, it will be down that particular road.
In Final Events, I note that this fundamentalist group in officialdom concluded that Roswell was a staged event - a "demonic trojan horse."
I don't agree with thei conclusion, nor do I conclude that if I write about their conclusion that it means I'm adding a new layer to a conspiracy explained in an earlier book.
My view is that if new data comes along on Roswell, or on something like this demon-UFO belief system surfaces, there's nothing wrong in informing the small number of people who may be interested, of what the new data is.
The irony is that by putting out a story that places Roswell in a definitively anomalous classification (albeit not ET), it actually (by default) suggests I was wrong about Roswell in my Body Snatchers book!
A lot of authors would not do that. I do, however, because i personally believe that the story of this group is so weird, so bizarre, and with so many twists and turns, that it's worth telling. But it's the stand-alone story of a strange little think-tank in the US Government who reached odd conclusions that I deeply disagree with. But that doesn't mean the story shouldn't be told.
Providing I make it clear to people that this is the group's story, not my story, nor my view, nor my conclusions - which I specifically do at the bottom of page 11 - I think it's ok to reveal my latest findings on the UFO subject.
I believe you, Nick, if you say you do not think UFOs are summoned by demons and that you are not putting this information out to capture a market. But you can understand, I think, some skepticism from those of use who read and enjoyed Contactees. After many critical-minded chapters supported by contemporary texts and FOIA requested documents, the book closed with speculative chapters on mind control and orbs that would have fit the tone -- and standard of evidence -- of many conspiracy UFO sites. This seemed like a sop thrown to the fringe of the market that showed you weren't a debunker. Maybe that wasn't your intent but that is how this reader viewed it. (Note: I did appreciate the bit about Mac Tonnies sandwiched in between. Very stimulating.)
Anyway...
> I don't think that this is anything to do with the market. After all, most people in Ufology don't believe UFOs have demonic origins
...David Icke is a rock star of the market and that is precisely his theory.
The ufologists you interact with are more-or-less rational, but at the consumer level, there is less discretion.
Terry
The chief (in fact, only) reason I included the orbs info in Contactees was because when I went back and re-read many of the original early to mid 1950s books, texts, pamphlets, self-published newsletters etc of the Contactees, I found that many of their initial experiences DID begin with their sightings of ethereal orbs and balls of light that would "become" saucers and space-brothers, as the Contactee went (in my view) into some obvious altered state of mind.
Hence my view that many of the Contactee experiences weren't hoaxes, but weren't encounters with Space-Brothers either. Rather they seemed to be visionary experiences, provoked by a phenomenon that masquerades as something it isn't.
Had the Contactee books, newsletters etc not noted the balls-of-light angle, I would not have included it. But as they did mention it, and it was an area that many forgot or dismissed, I felt it was highly relevant to the story - but not as a ploy to ensure i didn't come across like a debunker.
Frankly, I don't give a monkeys how I appear to people. I do care, however, about getting the data across, and I truly do believe that the orbs seem to play a role in the way this phenomenon manifests, so it's not a way to appear as a believer rather than as a debunker - it's a case of the simplest answer being the correct one: that I included that data because it's a relevant and valid part of the story and I believe it, and that's all.
I do appreciate your comments and views, as it's always vital to understand what someone thinks of an author's book.
However, I think you are looking for all sorts of rhyme and reason why I write about this, or why I include this or that in my books.
But, the reality is that I'm actually not that complex a person LOL! I include information, theories and data where I feel it's an integral part of the story. And that really is all.
That goes for the mind-manipulation angle too. People may disagree, but to me the Angelucci data in the book on this (the Tiny's Diner story) sound just like something along those lines.
Despite what some might say, assume or think, I don't approach the things I write about with the key issue being "how many copies will they sell?" If that was my motivation, I would never have written "Body Snatchers" (which because of its very nature was guaranteed from day-one to not sell many copies LOL).
My approach is to write about things that i feel people may find interesting, and where i can hopefully offer new input and insight (rather than just treading old ground).
It's not my fault if I sometimes write about things that may also be topical in the UFO arena, or in the world in general, but I don't deliberately seek out such an approach.
And, remember too - ufo book-sales are generally overall very small, so seeking out various markets (in terms of my own book-sales anyway!) would not likely have much of a dent on a field where a lot of my books only sell in the high 100s rather than even reaching in the 1000s!
Terry:
One thing i forgot to mention: you said at the opening of your comment: "I believe you, Nick, if you say you do not think UFOs are summoned by demons and that you are not putting this information out to capture a market. But you can understand, I think, some skepticism..."
So that there can be no doubt where I'm coming from on this demonic issue, before "Final Events" has barely begun, I specifically state in its pages the following:
"…it is important to note that the accounts, beliefs, theories and conclusions that I uncovered are strictly those of the people who have been willing to have them publicized. As the author of this book, I am only the messenger for those who adhere to the message."
I would hope you would agree that these words are not indicative of someone cynically trying to corner a market. Rather, it's the opposite: I'm personally distancing myself from the demonic belief-system.
I would hope you would agree that if an author (in this case, me) was trying to cynically capture that demonic market, they would hardly tell their audience from the outset that they didn't believe the theories of those interviewed in the book!
But that's precisely what I did say, because I do NOT believe the demonic theory. However, I DO believe that telling the story of how and why a small think-tank in Government came to believe the theory, IS a valid thing to do, because it offers new insight on the UFO phenomenon. In my view, however, the think-tank is wrong in its conclusions.
As the Magonia blog is a spot I love to drop in on, perhaps I'll chime in here as well.
I believe Nick did a yeoman's job of handling this information in a balanced and reasonable manner. I certainly applaud his ability to uncover further information than that which I had been given years earlier.
I do think some clarification is in order regarding the implied attitudes of wholesale, unreasoning belief, even gullibility.
Bear with me as I lay a little ground work for my thoughts.
As a Christian, a theologian, and a pastor, I firmly believe in the tenets of a rational, coherent, system of thought, known as orthodox, historic Christianity. These beliefs shape my view of everything, just as the beliefs of an atheistic, naturalistic, mechanistic view of life shape the worldview of those who hold to those systems of thought.
My work as a theologian is one of an apologist (offering a defense for my beliefs) as believers are told in the epistle of Jude to "contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." This faith, in short, being that ultimate, foundational Truth is found in the person of Jesus Christ.
The goal of my above-described work as a Christian, is simply to share the gospel (the good news) of Christ with others.
That being said: I, along with Nick, have also stated repeatedly that I have no idea if the information provided to me was true, false, or a mixture of both. Much as Nick has done, I felt it was my obligation to share this with the research community, which I did, beginning in the mid-1990s.
I have never intended to convey the idea that I believe all UFO events are absolutely explainable as demonic manifestations.
My point is that, when viewed from the perspective of a Christian theologian (who believes the Bible to be God's revealed word, and the final basis for authority in matters moral, spiritual and ecclesiastical), the behavior of the alleged entities comports so closely with that of demonic activity recorded in Scripture and throughout the history of the Church — particularly in matters regarding the deity of Christ — that they are nearly indistinguishable.
As with the message of the gospel, the goal is to get the information out there so people have a chance to evaluate and decide for themselves.
I think Nick accomplishes that remarkably well.
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posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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I just finished reading "Final Events" by Nick Redfern and feel the book failed me in two areas. First and foremost was the Collins Elite answer for Roswell was the part where they conclude that the biological material found was alchemical in origin and not extraterrestrial. So they imply that Jack Parsons performed a rite that resulted in the grey aliens? Traditional books on Roswell contain too many death bed confessions and witness reports of seeing the alien bodies even laid out on cafeteria table. I also have a hard time believing that when the Collins Elite got more funding during the Reagan administration they could not prove the "physical reality" of even the black helicopters that follow abduction victims around. Abductees even have photos of these helicopters. I conclude that Collins Elite have tunnel vision with previously conceived answers to everything
Hi Nick, I read your Final Events and had never heard of the CE prior to that. I am curious if you have ever researched the history of the Black Venetian Nobility and the first central bank they created in Italy, the Fondo. These families appear to have been Gnostic, which today has morphed into Luciferianism (self as God). They seem to have had a hand in formulating and/or financing the plans of the Alta Vendita, which was created by the powerful Carbonari secret society in Italy. The Marian prophecies of Fatima and Garabandal detail and predict the outcomes of these events. Fast forward to today, with the global rollout of United Nations Agenda 2030 and its Earth Charter. I don't see how you could, as a researcher of history, ignore the spiritual component of the New World Order and then set such a stake in the ground proclaiming that the Collins Elite are completely off the mark. I like your book, but feel your research and knowledge of history and current events is sorely lacking. Even the Catholic Church was aware of the nature of the global spiritual and financial threat the Fondi posed in 1509 AD, when they declared war (The War of the League of Cambrai) on Venice and chased them out. Today, these families own and control the Bank for International Settlements, which is the unelected world government that is never mentioned in the corporatized and Tavistock-generated and socially engineered "news." Go back and rewrite your book. I just gave the research starting points to get the story right the second time.
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